tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post1867000667601383170..comments2023-08-20T03:37:07.774-07:00Comments on PolitiFact Bias: PolitiFact 2011: A reviewBryan Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-22465008961889595552012-07-01T13:06:39.895-07:002012-07-01T13:06:39.895-07:00Thanks for sharing your views, Oran.
A few commen...Thanks for sharing your views, Oran.<br /><br />A few comments ...<br /><br /><b>And yet, when you look for a systematic bias by the numbers you find it very difficult to argue for one.</b><br /><br />I disagree. The thing that makes arguing from the numbers tough is simply the difficulty of separating out different methods of introducing bias. PolitiFact's system powerfully reinforces biasBryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-5570550088865914232012-07-01T11:31:06.453-07:002012-07-01T11:31:06.453-07:00The fatal flaw I see is that when one side goes wa...The fatal flaw I see is that when one side goes way too far, a second, more dangerous approach is used to maintain the numerical appearance of balance -- giving or withholding the "benefit of the doubt". Off the top of my head, I can think of two common ways this happens.<br /><br />One is when dealing with numbers that can have meaning when normalized against GDP, corrected for RhymesWithOrangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13286545868199457106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-36362140962663538942012-07-01T11:30:39.479-07:002012-07-01T11:30:39.479-07:00There are some flaws with PolitiFact's methodo...There are some flaws with PolitiFact's methodology, but at their core, they seem to be serious about their mission, despite some oddball rulings.<br /><br />Their 2011 Lie of the Year that essentially defends Paul Ryan's proposal to replace Medicare with a voucher program from liberal attacks that it will "end Medicare". With that editorial choice, they lost a lot of respect RhymesWithOrangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13286545868199457106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-55670327667872821292012-01-10T23:48:55.133-08:002012-01-10T23:48:55.133-08:00I feel like an elementary school teacher.
Well, y...<b>I feel like an elementary school teacher.</b><br /><br />Well, you do have an elementary school teacher's grasp of logic, based on the following.<br /><br /><b>Let me break this down to you Barney style since you seemed so committed to absurdities.<br />Lets say someone saw the claim "Approximately 5000% percent of the jobs created in the U.S. from November 2007-2008 were in Texas.&Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-88959507354634105342012-01-10T23:05:26.890-08:002012-01-10T23:05:26.890-08:00If you want to keep pretending this weak example i...<b>If you want to keep pretending this weak example is a good example of "snark" I obviously cannot change your mind. You claim it is false for either absurd or far fetched reasons.</b><br /><br />Reporters don't write things like that. Columnists do (opinion). Reporters, generally speaking, do not use themselves as the source of information unless they personally observed it. I Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-58877899176571763282012-01-10T22:56:54.056-08:002012-01-10T22:56:54.056-08:00Maybe you should have looked at that whole 2-part ...<b>Maybe you should have looked at that whole 2-part post I gave you instead of acting like I provided no evidence.</b><br /><br />I don't see why. If you provided any evidence it didn't come from the part I suggested you skip. So why waste the space?<br /><br /><b>(I)t doesn't matter if it can be quantified. The problem is that when you chose as evidence of your claim a statistic Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-58366838685612313832012-01-10T22:42:22.590-08:002012-01-10T22:42:22.590-08:00"Apart from the fact that it simply isn't...<b>"Apart from the fact that it simply isn't true, it doesn't make any sense for the GOP field to behave as PolitiFact claims. Each needs to make the case that he has a better economic plan than his competitors, not just Obama. The claim from PolitiFact is not factual.</b><br />This was a long time before the primaries, half a year in fact, so this excuse carries little weight. And KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-60943652339143090472012-01-10T22:13:50.624-08:002012-01-10T22:13:50.624-08:00Almost missed this, sorry:
(N)otice the article w...Almost missed this, sorry:<br /><br /><b>(N)otice the article where this quote came from actually took place long before the debates, btw.</b><br /><br />No, there'd been a debate in S.C. before that and the candidates were in N.H. for a debate on the same day Gingrich made the statement PF was fact checking.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-7009606510955900152012-01-10T22:10:43.407-08:002012-01-10T22:10:43.407-08:00"Then you should have skipped ahead instead o...<b>"Then you should have skipped ahead instead of pretending that the statement provided the evidence you were supposed to provide</b><br /><br />Maybe you should have looked at that whole 2-part post I gave you instead of acting like I provided no evidence. <br /><br /><b>"Inaction can help provide a job-creating climate also. You count that as a mechanism? How do we quantify the KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-89820539096606145782012-01-10T21:26:13.446-08:002012-01-10T21:26:13.446-08:00Is your point that, if these four candidates spent...<b>Is your point that, if these four candidates spent all their time attacking Obama, I couldn't pick one over another?</b><br /><br />Not quite. You could always draw lots. But you're surprisingly close.<br /><br />Apart from the fact that it simply isn't true, it doesn't make any sense for the GOP field to behave as PolitiFact claims. Each needs to make the case that he has aBryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-57515994290941175272012-01-10T21:18:00.145-08:002012-01-10T21:18:00.145-08:00KnocksvilleE wrote:
(T)hose generalities were comp...KnocksvilleE wrote:<br /><b>(T)hose generalities were completely wrong when considering any post other than the ONE post from Politifact virginia.</b><br /><br />Then you should have skipped ahead instead of pretending that the statement provided the evidence you were supposed to provide.<br /><br /><b>the mechanism is the actions of Rick Scott.</b><br /><br />Inaction can help provide a Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-18951962729229051992012-01-10T20:47:34.140-08:002012-01-10T20:47:34.140-08:00"Oh, and if you're concerned about browse...<b>"Oh, and if you're concerned about browser crashes then consider composing on Word and then pasting it into the reply window. Works great."</b><br />I actually started doing this. <br /><br /><b>"Sure they can say it. It just isn't accurate. It wasn't even accurate just during the debate</b><br />If it's inaccurate, it's only in a trivial way. Its inaccurate KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-6492511364761432372012-01-10T20:35:01.523-08:002012-01-10T20:35:01.523-08:00"As I was speaking in generalities, it would ...<b>"As I was speaking in generalities, it would not be appropriate to consider any specific economic mechanism. There's no evidence for you there."</b><br />As I demonstrated with the rest of the post, those generalities were completely wrong when considering any post other than the ONE post from Politifact virginia. <br /><br /><b>"Gross jobs added also accounts for more than KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-67820710566120512512012-01-10T20:12:47.413-08:002012-01-10T20:12:47.413-08:00So because the candidate spends more time sleeping...<b>So because the candidate spends more time sleeping than saying they could better handle the economy than Obmama, Politifact can't say they spend most of their time doing that? That has the be the most absurd thing you have said on this post so far. Wow!</b><br /><br />Sure they can say it. It just isn't accurate. It wasn't even accurate just during the debate.<br /><br /><b>As toBryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-6123104612533623232012-01-10T20:07:58.641-08:002012-01-10T20:07:58.641-08:00Oh, and if you're concerned about browser cras...Oh, and if you're concerned about browser crashes then consider composing on Word and then pasting it into the reply window. Works great.Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-77635810261770735812012-01-10T20:03:42.959-08:002012-01-10T20:03:42.959-08:00Bryan, I break my posts up because it makes the po...<b>Bryan, I break my posts up because it makes the posts shorter and decreases the chance that a browser crash will cause me to lose a lot of work. What is wrong with this?</b><br /><br />It looks spammy and makes the flow of conversation more difficult to follow. I can cut you off anytime I like, so no it isn't an excuse for me to have the last word. I need no excuse to do that. Stay Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-55943436842809467762012-01-10T19:56:50.152-08:002012-01-10T19:56:50.152-08:00The supposed evidence that I "did not investi...The supposed evidence that I "did not investigate whether or not Politifact was consistent when the mechanism that "created" jobs was the same as the mechanism that caused jobs to be lost":<br /><br /><b>“PolitiFact, you see, pays special attention to the words politicians use. If they say "we created x jobs" it does not necessarily mean net jobs. And that's Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-63413724576147203932012-01-10T19:39:47.992-08:002012-01-10T19:39:47.992-08:00Bryan, I break my posts up because it makes the po...Bryan, I break my posts up because it makes the posts shorter and decreases the chance that a browser crash will cause me to lose a lot of work. What is wrong with this? Or are you just looking for an excuse to kick me off so you can have the last word? <br />Also, if you want my posts to be shorter, stop asking me absurd questions like the one i answered in the last post.<br /><br /><b>"KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-66839702291094908232012-01-10T19:32:44.308-08:002012-01-10T19:32:44.308-08:00"If the issue is the way the reasonable perso...<b>"If the issue is the way the reasonable person interprets things then why did you choose in your next reply to show us PolitiFact using an "expert" source informing us that it is "standard" to talk of creating jobs while considering gross job creation? Did PolitiFact apply that standard consistently?"</b><br /><br />This is absurd. Have you ever heard of KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-10761151707234024952012-01-10T19:28:43.121-08:002012-01-10T19:28:43.121-08:00Please note that you have been asked not to post m...Please note that you have been asked not to post more than once at a time before receiving a reply.Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-26806025543208817882012-01-10T19:24:53.116-08:002012-01-10T19:24:53.116-08:00"Do we get evidence supporting your assertion...<b>"Do we get evidence supporting your assertion that the choice of words was "incredibly poor"?"</b><br /><br />Rick Scott said. "the <b>stimulus</b> has not created one private sector job." HE SAID THE STIMULUS! THE STIMULUS! THE STIMULUS! Once again, net job creation takes into account <b>MORE</b> than just the stimulus. So the fact that he <b>SOLELY</b> mentionedKnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-10682315951941445982012-01-10T19:15:10.110-08:002012-01-10T19:15:10.110-08:00As for the statement from the Texas Policy Foundat...As for the statement from the Texas Policy Foundation, also listed under “Harmed by includion.” Gross jobs had no effect in the ruling. In fact, nearly half the article was dedicated to justifying why they used net jobs in this analysis. The reason for the half-true was partly because, as a percentage of population, the jobs gained in Texas were not as good as others: “However, comparing the KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-17572131242018430782012-01-10T19:14:34.264-08:002012-01-10T19:14:34.264-08:00"Your evidence, please?"
This may take a...<b>"Your evidence, please?"</b><br />This may take a few posts, but I will go ahead and do the job you should have done:<br />“PolitiFact, you see, pays special attention to the words politicians use. If they say "we created x jobs" it does not necessarily mean net jobs. And that's misleading.”<br />You failed to take a look at what mechanism was creating the jobs, KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-85065874317768030002012-01-10T17:08:56.273-08:002012-01-10T17:08:56.273-08:00More serial Knocksiousness ...
Where did I do thi...More serial Knocksiousness ...<br /><br /><b>Where did I do this?</b><br /><br />You do it often, with your summary of Ostermeier's process perhaps the most outstanding example. But here's another good one from your next post:<br /><br /><b>(Y)ou did not investigate whether or not Politifact was consistent when the mechanism that "created" jobs was the same as the mechanism Bryan Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07608604859044029293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6161368243189108227.post-55142852566474796092012-01-10T15:02:48.317-08:002012-01-10T15:02:48.317-08:00"Let's just suppose that they don't s...<b>"Let's just suppose that they don't spend more time sleeping than they do talking politics."</b><br />Great waste of text.<br /><br /><b>We're in the season of the GOP presidential primary. Say we've got eight candidates and four of them make the case that they'd handle the economy better than President Obama.</b><br />And your point being? So you are admitting KnocksvilleEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08423194549982565593noreply@blogger.com